Miscellaneous Discussion: GM O*d Look/New Look NomenclatureGroup: misc.transport.urban-transit
Discussion: GM O*d Look/New Look Nomenclature
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|Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
|From the Fall 1996 "30' Fishbowl" topic, and going away from the
specific models discussed:
On Sep 26,1996,"Michael Brandt" and "John M.Day" spake:
...the GM "o*d looks" are also TDH(mumble), with a different (mumble)
than the new looks. And
there are also TGH (gas powered) and TDM (manual transmission)
versions. I don't know if the RTS buses continued to use this type of
model number (anyone?). As I said in a different thread, we need a
Okay, listen up. This has no doubt been done before and will be done
--GM model nomenclature (up to the RTS) was:
----P,T or S - first letter for Parlor (i.e. highway), Transit or
----D or G - second letter Diesel or Gas
----M or H - third letter (not on any P's nor on early T's) -
Mechanical or Hydraulic transmission
You sure?[If you're still breathing after all these 14 y***s since
that post was made] GM started putting P6M and P8M on their 1970s
"P"'s, depsite their gradual offering automatics. Hydraulic might've
been an allusion to "Hydramatic", since GM had that since Olds in
1939, whether in 1939, GM owned or not, had unveiled it.
J.M.Day [from 1996]:
First two numbers denote nominal seating capacity in standard design)
Second two numbers are just a sequence number. GM often ran a narrow
and a wide model (96 and 102 inch) concurrently and the model sequence
would therefore jump in pairs (so the successor to the TDH5301 was a
> > TDH5303).
> > Last letter (later models only) - Air or Non-air conditioned. (A or
> > N)
> > There's no way to distinguish new look and o*d look bodies in this
> > system: you just have to know. The TDH/M 53XX series were all
> > fishbowls.
> > The first 35 foot fishbowls were TDH4517 (well, there was a *very
> > rare*
> > TDH4516 variant) and the 33XX series were the baby fishbowls that got
> > all
> > this started. I believe the SDX 53XX's were all fishbowls IIRC as
> > were
> > any SDX 45XX's. Virtually all other T and S models would be "o*d
> > look".
> > The model designation doesn't give you any help with length or width
> > either. You just have to know that a TXX 45XX is 35 feet and a TXX
> > 51XX
> > or 53XX is 40 feet. I hope this helps and I beg a thousand pardons
> > in advance for any error
> > of omission or commission which I know will be landed on by some
> > eagle
> > eye out there :-) Now you can stop (mumbling).
It's pretty hard when they started doing more combinations as a
result of a transition [like 78 to 45 rpm singles slowly happening in
the late 40s] to newer options [gas to diesel, stick shift to
automatic, plus suburban versus just plain transit with legendarily
suburbans being paired off with stick shifts, and "official transits"
paired off with automatics, with particular engine fuel diesel or gas
being unrelated as the immense number of model types show, likewise
for that reason clearly MUCH more than implied by what I just wrote].
The situation gets much harder [and this is JUST with GMC, we'll get
started on Flixbile's lookalikes another time!] with the o*d versus
new look [as they came to be called], and optional back doors like on
regular transits on the so called "suburbans".
Of course, it's a popular misconception, a very widespread apparently,
that stick shifts were on ALL of the "suburbans", and that after the
early or mid-1950s automatics were on all the regular transits
-- as John Day [the author of at least on book on the topic]
correctly said in 1996, there were automatic suburbans [SDH or SGH]
and MANUAL transits [but not after late 60s, anymore than gas or ANY
more new "o*d Look" was! [TDM and ALSO TGM], in ADDITION to the
automatic transits and manual subsurbans [as Mr.John M.Day mentioned.]
By the mid 1960s, with gasoline in these buses on their way out,by
1969] GMC stopped offering gas [not to mention the already "outdated"
o*d look-types] engines, and the (mumble)D(mumble)[Heh! I like that!]
(mumble)G(mumble) was replaced by 6 or 8 for engine cylinder, and
manuals went out in these, replaced by autos, but the "H" [No Spam] model's
name end remained [likewise the M added to GMC intercity, or in their
nomenclature "Parlour" coaches, despite the approaching of autos,
since manuals with 4 speeds still hung in there till 1980, when the
intercity coaches fell from the line].
It's curious to know, and only YouTube would be a great guide, how
versus diesel sounded in those.
I read somewhere that "S" for the lightweight suburb rides did not
exist on o*d looks, correct ?
BTW I rode, in 1984, a Peppermint colored FLXIBLE "Baby Fishbowl" with
a four speed Allison MT 643, I think, it had RND321 [naturally by then
the V730 and successors with two gear changes, witht he RND21 handle
and in 731 electric buttons, had come along by the late 1970s.]
|Sep 15, 2010 - 01:02:31 am EST
> I read somewhere that "S" for the lightweight suburb rides did not
> exist on o*d looks, correct ?
I found this:
|Sep 15, 2010 - 01:04:16 am EST
|On Sep 14, 10:02=A0pm, GMC_Bus wrote:
> Me:> I read somewhere that "S" for the lightweight suburb rides did not
> > exist on o*d looks, correct ?
> I found this:
John Day's and someone else's agreement that SXX did not exist till
the Fishbowl came along.
|Sep 16, 2010 - 12:21:18 pm EST
|On 15 Sep, 06:04, GMC_Bus wrote:
> On Sep 14, 10:02=A0pm, GMC_Bus wrote:
> > Me:> I read somewhere that "S" for the lightweight suburb rides did not
> > > exist on o*d looks, correct ?
> > I found this:
> John Day's and someone else's agreement that SXX did not exist till
> the Fishbowl came along.
ISTR an article in Classic Bus a few y***s back covering a lot of
this, If I come across It I'll post relevant details.
early gm nomenclature
gm new look fishbowl discussion
gm o*d look buses
gm o*d look transit buses